AV0031Ma

Good. Now, can I just say it's a privilege to be here and quite a feature.
So, a visit as the first mayor of Whitehorse, the city of Whitehorse,
certainly a great privilege to hold that position,
but it's going to be a great privilege to hold it in future too,
because seeing the first mayor, I think that it has been
gone extremely successfully given the limitations that obviously exists.
It's taken a number of months or a big taken number of months
for the new council to settle in, so you get to know one another.
There were, as you understand, I don't know, there were five ex-none-awarding councillors,
and I guess they knew one another pretty well, and there was me,
and there was four new ones. So, there were sort of half who knew one another,
and half who didn't, and as with any group, the group dynamics do come into play,
and you get to know and get on with different people, and you don't get on with everyone,
and occasionally over-issues you do divide, but by and large,
you always feel that in groups, that personalities that count, personalities.
And on issues, we have been very unified, I believe, which has been a great start.
We've generally come down on the same side together,
and I think that the same evokes do finalise as being unanimous,
which is a great relief. I've only had to use my casting vote once,
which I hate doing, and that was on a planning issue.
The developer, because I thought it was in my ward,
and I thought it was a reasonable proposal, given that it was for a lot less units
than the developer could have had, so we have proved that, just on my casting vote.
Some of the neighbours are a bit upset, and the developer then went off and asked for the film
amount that he could have got, and the AAT came back by a couple,
so he ended up getting a lot more than the council approved on my casting vote.
So I thought, well, if that's the worst that I can do with my casting vote on it, don't do it badly.
I shouldn't ramble too much. I should say that the period that this last year in campuses
is part of a transition period with our undergoing and local government
as in the community generally, transition, change, or discussing it before,
change and change seems to have been with us for a long time.
I think the pace of change has gathered. Change is always with us.
It's the pace that has gathered pace in the last gathered, has become faster in the last couple of years.
And I think that hopefully, hopefully, it'll slow.
I don't think we can keep up with all this change.
And change for change's sake is never good. It must be an improvement.
And I'm sure that everyone will agree that not all the change has been to the better.
Some of the things that we've valued in the past, which might have seen a bit antiquated to some people,
were in fact very good.
But they've been swept away, and we've moved on.
I think in some ways, maybe we'll go back to what we're doing before having experienced the new system.
But certainly so far as local government reform is concerned,
I think generally it has been a success and very much overdue.
And my organisations were something that probably should have happened 10, 15 years ago,
and for various reasons didn't.
Successive governments, liberal and labor, did undertake studies to review the amalgamations.
And for whatever reason, the political forces, all of these things just take time before they actually take hold.
And of course, a couple of years ago, they did take hold with the vengeance.
There's still suggestions that further amalgamations can occur, probably more up the bush,
where some of the councils are struggling financially than in the city.
But even in the city, who knows what's going to happen to Darriban, where the council is dismissed.
But in Whitehorse, I think that the actual amalgamation has worked well.
And overall, I'll give a fairly rosy view of the events and the outcomes.
Other people may be different, people have different perspectives, there's no doubt.
But I believe that firstly, the council works harmoniously.
We do have differences over perhaps emphasis and some of the priorities that we'd like to see,
but by and large, we do agree on many things.
The division between Box Hill and Nada Wadding, I think was more in people's minds than the reality,
because, as everyone knows, in this society, it was originally one Shire.
It was split when the two Eastern wards districts wanted to appreciate what was going on the other end of town,
and the side of the lake had made better on their own.
And for 50 years, did so, very successfully, or actually 70 years, wasn't it?
Did so, 60 something years, 65 was it?
25 to 95, nearly 60, nearly 69 years.
So, it worked, well, it worked probably well for 50 years and probably the last 10 or so years.
Perhaps, you know, as I said, amalgamation could have occurred then.
And because I think with communications, the fact that the area is well settled, well developed, we're very much, you know,
the sort of development that has occurred in particularly in the north and south of Box Hill,
in Mitchum, in parts of Nada Wadding, certainly in Vermont,
I'm talking about the post-war development, very much the same.
And you've got the similar sort of community, I believe, throughout those areas.
And I think that it isn't hard to work together.
We're not, it's not as though, trying to combine Werribee and Frankston, it's, you know, we are next to one another.
And I think that people have taken the attitude that we work together and people are very, there's a lot of good will, which I think is wonderful.
Having said that, it's also important that societies, different community groups, do maintain their own character and their own individuality.
Such as this group.
The Box Hill group is going to look at one particular part of the history of the city.
And this group looks at a different part of the history of the city.
And I don't think that there's any need to have a white horse community or white horse historic society.
I think that having the two works perfectly well, perfectly well.
So why disturb the natural growth of these two organisations?
The administrative and financial affairs of the city, we did go through a very rough patch following amalgamation with the administration.
The first CEO, I think everyone would recognise, was in a great, a great appointment.
It was perhaps an inappropriate one given her background and she just wasn't suited to the task.
But that meant that the city didn't have a lot of the problems solved, administrative problems solved and the council was reelected.
And a lot of those issues that were of amalgamation and having the right structures in place were still being undertaken when the council came back into office.
And so I did put us behind to some extent.
And I think it was a great credit to everyone, staff and council and the community in particular, that people were for bearing and understood that there were these problems.
And they surfaced from time to time and hopefully are being dealt with.
We still get a lot of problems.
And I don't think we'll ever get the sort of personal service that council, two council administrations with 70 or 80% more staff was able to give than we now have.
Because we just don't have that same level of resources.
And before coming here, I went down and saw somebody who was having a little bit of trouble with the collection contractors and those sort of things happen.
And it's just a matter of perhaps being people being a bit more careful.
The administration going out of their way to be customer oriented as it's called, or citizen oriented as it really is.
And it's an attitudinal thing that really needs to change perhaps in the administration still.
And we're always saying it.
And if we keep saying it, maybe it'll happen one day, that the council administration will realise all members of the council administration, most do.
But some don't.
That the residents actually own the city.
And they're the bosses.
And they're not customers.
Not as though they're walking into Mars or Cowls or Big W or something.
Actually own it.
And people should be very respectful of our points of view as residents because we do pay the bills.
And we live here.
And we want to make the place as nice as possible and function as well as possible.
But we like a bit of courtesy and good service.
So there are a few attitudinal sort of things that happen.
I mean even as councillors, we do get problems with some of the administration making decisions.
I might reference it all.
It happened recently.
I brought up an issue and the resident had raised.
The officers looked into it, gave me some advice, right, to the residents in the area and got their view.
Got their views back.
And in the office it made the decision.
And the week later told me, well, you know, you just wonder what you're doing there.
In the office of them making these decisions.
Particularly it's something that the council has been involved with.
And the residents find out through this sort of rather qualitative letter.
So it's not the way to go.
A lot of those issues still need to be refined and people realise that there is a democracy here that needs to be in better working order perhaps.
I've mentioned the councillors.
As I said, we've worked reasonably well.
You'll always get differences.
And as I said, the differences that I've ever experienced in council are more over personality than over issues.
You can resolve issues, but you can't resolve personality differences.
And doesn't mean that everyone on council is always going to be your best mate.
As political parties find, they still have people on their side of politics that perhaps they really can't stand.
But they get on well with someone from the other side of politics.
That happens, that personality, it probably happens more at council where there's less of a political divide and it's more of a personality situation.
But we get on reasonably well having said that and also having said about the success of an organization, certainly from my perspective, I do believe that,
well there is no doubt that my having been the first mayor, or mayor this year, the next mayor will come from the eastern end of the city.
I think that people still are aware of the divide.
There's no doubt.
You can't deny it.
I'm just saying that by and large, given that the divide was there for 69 years, we've been quite successful in two or three years in sort of gradually bringing people together and start to think about white horse
rather than the way we used to do it and unawiting or the way we used to do it and box hill, those sort of things.
That takes time to go.
But I think we have been very successful in getting people to start thinking more about on a white horse, on a city wide perspective.
The issues that are mostly have arisen in the city, the primary one really is planning.
I talked before about being in a period of transition where I would hope that pace slows.
In fact, in planning, it is increasing.
We're receiving more and more applications.
The cycle is such at the moment the economic development cycle is such that developers, financiers, and other people,
and others who sort of propel the building cycle are focusing on residential redevelopment.
It's probably more happening in the older areas, but you do get, for example, the old school sites, the one on Heatherdale Road,
came up just before Christmas, and I don't believe many of those have been handled properly.
Some of them have.
Some of them aren't bad, but I think a number of the old school sites, for example, which should be an example of good planning,
good development, and good quality housing.
I think it's been just a matter of how many people can we cram on there, and how much can we get for it,
how can we maximise our dollar.
It's really been to my observation.
There is, I think one or two exceptions, but to my observation, there has been a grab for the dollar
and to hell with the people who are going to live there, and the community around,
which has been a great pity.
There's no doubt that developments these days are far more intense.
I'm not saying that you should have quarter-eighted blocks on these sites.
I think that we must recognise that the nature of the household these days is much different to what it was,
say 40 or 50 years ago, when there were families, you know, the two parent, three or four children
in the family, was the norm, today it's the exception, and we are very much having to refashion our suburbs
to reflect that situation.
There are more single people, there are more single parent households than there were, say 20 or 30 years ago,
and that's the demographic change that we must recognise in the economy or in the development, the housing development of the city.
What we're trying to do slowly, and we've had a couple of goes at it, is trying to institute some standards
which meet the government's criteria for urban consolidation, as they call it,
and the government's mainly in main interest in all this, is not whether people like the housing,
it's to stop them moving down a pack and then we'll just see, because it's all too far out and it stresses the infrastructure dollar,
and it means that people living right on the outskirts of the city can not exactly, it's not the best locality for people,
it can be very lonely in these new suburbs. It is better living in an established suburb, you've got a lot of the community organisations,
the infrastructure and people with the safety net to pick people up if they do run into strife,
and also generally they're slightly more affluent and there's a few more dollars to support people.
And I think that, so from that point of view, the government's policy, I think is the right one,
but how it actually is implemented is the difficulty. How do we actually accommodate 4,000 or however many units are rejected for this city,
given that you do have quarter-acre blocks and you do have cream brick veneer houses or you have Californian bungalows
a sort of uniformity on the street, do just plant one of these sort of six packs in there,
and sort of two-story brick thing or two-up slab things that look totally out of place.
And we're trying to make sure that they do have some commonality with the streetscape, that they do enhance it,
it's not to say they have to replicate it, we don't want people building cream brick veneer houses, it means that it does have some,
it does pay some dues to what is there, it has recognises what is there already and tries to fit in.
You can't, I mean, some of the Ministry of Housing developments of the 70s and 80s, you know, they're very prissy,
you know, they had a lot of gaudy, um, um, um, waste work or barge boards or whatever, and, um, dorm or windows and all that sort of thing,
that, um, they stood out, and they were a bit too ahead at the top, I mean, you can tone it down and try to make it fit in as well as you can.
So planting is one area that we're still coming to groups with, we don't want everything looking the same,
but we don't want it to outrageously different, and we don't want, as is common these days, double story developments that try to cram, say,
four on a block where there was one, I think the intensity of those developments is too great, and we, it isn't, it isn't so much one in the street,
just that once you let one in, obviously, you know, how, how the rest of the suburb is going to go, or the rest of the street, and, um, do you really want a sort of replay of,
or modern day version of the St. Kilda of the 60s, 50s and 60s, where you have these three-story brick veneer blocks, and, um, they're very ugly,
and they, they took out some beautiful old houses, and in 30 or 40 years time, people might look at some of these cream brick veneer houses and think, they're not too bad,
we can fix them up, they can paint them up and put a few sort of ornamentation on them and make them look quite nice and renovate them inside,
and they, they can come up quite nicely, so, and they're well built, they're very well built, and got good insulation, et cetera.
The, um, talking about planning and the other mentions before, the heritage aspect, in respect to 35 Blackburn Road,
we, we are certainly, and this is perhaps something that, if we'd been a, if the, an organization had taken places a little bit earlier, we would have been on top of a bit earlier also,
well, sorry, in the organization taken earlier, if the administrative reform had really been put in place earlier,
as I said, there was this hick-a-thick-a-th-in getting it actually in place because of the people that were involved earlier on.
Um, the heritage study needs to be undertaken before we lose too many of our good housing stock, housing in particular,
again, the old child offices, for example, so we must work very quickly, and we have appointed a consultant who hopefully will work quickly,
called Lovell Alum, or something like that, who is undertaking a survey of the whole city to identify these sites, the houses, and other sites that should be preserved as part of the heritage of the city.
We also have Commission Day Heritage Study on 35 Blackburn Road, we're waiting to try to extricate that from the consultant at the moment,
so we can send that into the heritage, heritage Victoria.
Um, another issue in confronting the Council is the redevelopment of Box Hill.
Box Hill Commercial Centre has went through a period of neglect and also suffered from the downturn in commercial, the commercial cycle of the early 90s,
and it moving the child of Council officers from Box Hill up to, now the lighting probably had an impact as well, even if a psychological one.
And it does need a lot of attention, but the full success of Box Hill resides in private investment.
Council can do something like we've opened up Redeveloped Carrington Road, and we'll do the mall and a few other areas of the medium strip and those sorts of things.
It's pretty at alphabet and perhaps make it look more interesting for the shoppers and people who are going to restaurants and other visitors to that commercial centre,
but it really does depend on private investment to be a success, and any shopping precinct, commercial precinct does need a constant cycle of investment,
and it really hasn't had one down there since the mid 80s when Box Hill Central was built, and it's looking a little bit tired and old.
You can't let these things split because once they do split the little bit and they keep slipping, eventually they go under because everyone thinks,
well, why would you invest any money down there? It's just not worth it. And then the forest hills and the non-castas get the upper hand,
it's also even burk road has been very successful. That's sort of come back quite strongly.
So it is in a very difficult situation, Box Hill.
I've mentioned about the planning issues, but urban, my next point, is on urban restoration and improvement, and by that I mean not the private redevelopment housing redevelopment,
but the sort of works that the Council is embarking on to improve streetscapes, parks, sporting facilities, shopping centres, other than Box Hill is one,
but certainly mid-term and we just don't know what to do with not a watering. That's a hard one.
But eventually, we've had a few thoughts about it. It's just a very difficult one and a watering.
And I guess someone's going to, it's going to be eventually something that we do in conjunction with Bicrods and perhaps the PTC so far as that railway line,
which makes it very difficult how to do something with it.
We had a meeting with Bicrods about six months ago and we were trying to discuss various options that could be used there.
I don't know how it happened, but the member for Knox is very persuasive. He managed to get the PTC to spend $20 million doing a split grade at Dorset Road at Baronia Railway Station.
Baronia Dorset Road has hardly the traffic of Springvale Road, but he got them to spend all that money down there. Maybe it's a political thing. Maybe it's not quite sure why.
But I would have thought if it's possible, if it is at all possible, we should do something about, no, not a watering, that Springvale Road.
To assist both the traffic flow because it's a terrible bottleneck.
And particularly now the freeway has gone up to Springvale Road. You've got a lot of traffic coming down there.
And it's a very, and coming up Springvale Road to the freeway. And it's a very tricky one. They say the grades are just wrong.
There are ways to close to Whitehorse Road, but I don't know. It seems to me that there must be some solution, but a very expensive one.
And again, it would probably impact on some of the shops on Springvale Road.
But it's something that we haven't given up, like an organization's. It's time will come. It's time will come. We'll just keep working on it.
Now, a good method. Another area we're trying to improve kindergarten and health centres down in Box Hill End, Box Hill South, and Box Hill North.
There is a family daycare, family day centre or family centre, family centres. And it's a large centre which incorporates the child and community of child health service.
The various community activities that provide meeting rooms. There are kinders. There are play groups. There's what else down there.
All the up-bose, those are the major constituents, but having them all in the one centre and a lot of our older kindergartens are in very old facilities.
And perhaps not appropriate any longer. So, I hope to upgrade those as part of this urban improvement.
I guess I've covered most of the issues that are confronting us. And just to end up on an historic perspective, as I said at the outset, we are in a period of transition.
The transition period will continue for a few more years before. I think we do settle down to something which approximates an ongoing norm.
I think it will probably be certainly the aim of this council by the time we come up for re-election two years time to say that we have finished the transition.
And now we're about actually building on the future. We are doing that now, but I think we can be focused more on that.
There's still a lot of question marks over our government attitudes, but perhaps we'll resolve those issues in the longer term.
And we will work together with the government to achieve some of our common ambitions.
The other issue about the future, which I've mentioned, the future I think will be very much one of urban improvement that greater controls.
I somehow feel that councils will eventually get more control over planning issues. It's gone one way, and certainly the gates have been open for a while, but I think it's gone too far.
And we're going to start cutting back on some of the development that we've been seeing. The type of development is not the number, but I think that councils will gather more if we can get our act together amongst councils and act unifiably unitedly.
We will actually achieve a lot more. The future, this city is in very good financial condition, I should say. We've got a lot of money in the bank. Our rates are too low. We're told. I'm sure you'd all agree.
But it depends on what you want out of the Council. We're off rating it a lot less than we're spending the money on physical improvement. We're not spending it on to the same extent on just administration.
I think that's a big improvement. And that's the one reason, if only for that reason and the organization is being worth it. We've stopped spending so much on administration and we've turned that money into actually doing things that people can appreciate and benefit from.
So that's all I've got to say. And if there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Thank you.
Thank you.
So there's a question or two that we should say how pleased we are that that heritage heritage or whatever the name of the consultant has been pointed because they have been something of concern to us. And I'm sure it has been to the Council too because it's been a reactionary situation you've been in.
And I guess we've seen buildings go down, lovely old homes. And I think this has kept them more down in the western end of the city and actual fact.
So, you know, it's a good example of all these homes that are going to be detected in the future of the Senate.
So we are going to have children and their children to work with this consultant and a little more to the outcome of his report.
So we have a question for the question that you were comfortable with.
Yes, Jane.
I'm happy to see some of the buildings going by, you know, in a problem.
Yep.
It's a council to be a bit firm about right now.
Well, there's only one school site left and that's the Hepidar Road one, which we've rejected the proposal there.
That was really just an over-center-oat.
It was an over-development of the site. There's no doubt.
The one site is the old, I think it's Boxle, Tec, or it's Boxle South, Tec on the corner of Eley Road and Middle Borough Road.
Oak would rise.
Now, that isn't a bad development. That was done by the Urban Land Authority.
And so I guess that they were a little bit lighter with their pens in drawing on boxes on the map.
And they did preserve a number of trees there for a common area, which is quite attractive.
And it's to be hoped that if there are any at center road, that center road is it?
There's that it would be as a day of the preserve too.
I mean, the proposal, as I said, up there was really quite intensive. It's about 58 units, 58 residences.
So hopefully, yes, the trees will be preserved where possible.
Can't always preserve trees.
We've already gone to see the old, heavy-dirt, face, and the faster the trees will make the best of us.
That's not the same one.
Right.
That's been developed. That's been developed. All right.
Yeah.
I'm not doing that.
Yes.
I'm not doing that.
No, well, a number of developments, the developers get in there with the chainsaw and then put an application in.
And you can't, well, what you can do is to say, well, you've got to put back a mature tree.
A customer, a bit of money.
Yeah.
And that's one thing we can insist on.
Even if the trees have to be relocated, if they put back a 10-year-old tree, it's going to cost a lot of money.
An extension, I think, to James' question, who would they wear the city used for the tree preservation policy
or order on this? My name is
because then he tends to see and it takes a brave council to approve it.
Because the community is always a bit divided on the stricturally placed on them.
That really was Joan, behind Joan's question is that's the only way that we can save the tree is for the council to have tree preservation
order on certain types of trees where they could decide for example, both the selection of fish and fire and haystack.
So, I think that was extended, you know, to other areas, very trees.
The example that I'm dealing with is a very tree area where I think when Australia and 90s were being planted from the city, all the years ago, I know a very substantial tree area, and it's just a very preservation order that I do and would save it.
I think it is a very difficult thing and I have this council, like, that in hand, we've seen many of these, some of them, some of them have been like, coming from tree preservation.
There's tree preservation is an issue of everyone thinks it's good for other people and yes, we'll preserve other people's trees, but if I want to cut down my tree, well, I should be able to.
I guess we should have, well, I guess people should be able to, if they feel that they want to cut down a tree for whatever reason, I guess they can other than the black burn area, the special zone, but so far as developers are concerned, then we would want to preserve.
And that does form part of the development strategy that we would preserve trees where possible.
Obviously, I mean, it's a very difficult one, even in the black burn area, we had an example recently in La Burnham Street where the block was subdivided, a terrible building would put on one plot, and the applicant came along to the tree.
They came along to build similar building on their block, but it had three big trees in the middle, because they're right in the middle of the block, so you couldn't really build much on it at all.
And so it does create a problem. A couple of those trees might have to go, but it's a matter of compromising those situations. They get a smaller house, or a differently located house, but a couple of the trees are preserved, not withstanding the fact that they perhaps may be dangerous trees being gum.
They do drop big limbs, and they can cause a bit of damage when that happens. That's something I guess you live with if you live in black burn, and one of the problems, but if you live elsewhere, trees are very much a case-by-case situation.
But so far as possible, we've got a very large site, and you do have a number of mature trees, significant trees, and certainly we'd be looking to, that would be part of our planning strategy.
What we're trying to is, it's the old idea that the only plant trees that don't have root systems is gone, and undoubtedly we'll have problems with footpaths in 10 or 20 years time, but at least we'll have the trees.
So, there's another issue, that aerial bundling or undergrounding cables, and I guess one day people might decide, yeah, it's worth the cost to underground it.
So, there's a black light on the city. Yes, exactly. I like the mural, the mural, the tree, the furniture and sun, and that's the paint and green.
That's great, that's great. Well, hopefully they'll come out in more sympathetic colours and future actual signs. That was the signs of pretty ordinary.
So, I don't think any other Christians, but I think it's done.
I think the first thing that happened to them is, was really very much the same thing, that it was really the wrong thing in the area, and it was just a little thing in the background. I think it had the idea that now they're just ready to buy footsteps that people want to live with, but they're not.
They should be providing foot foot for the tenors that we have to come, but people who were 30 months ago have to be found in them.
Well, I guess it's a period of libraries have gone through the same sort of transition period that many other services have, which has suffered cutbacks with less funds.
There have been more heavily dealt with than others than some others. Council's got caught a little bit by the state government withdrawing funding support for libraries and gradually moved into supplement that reduction, but then found their own finances under pressure, and something had to give.
What is an adequate level of any service? I guess as long as we maintain a service which is available, so particularly at peak times.
One of the problems with libraries, and I guess it's been a problem with government services for a long time, is that quite often those services are not available and most people want them, weekends, night times, etc.
If you pay penalty rates and you've cranced all sorts of financial problems.
And maybe, you know, gradually I'm not quite sure of the award conditions for librarians and other service providers, but undoubtedly, I think eventually, eventually, the same sort of conditions that apply in the retail industry and hospitality,
where there are no, perhaps, over time, payments, penalty payments may prevail and give flexibility to the service.
It's very important to provide the service, very important to have the resources, the book stock, and that's something that must be maintained.
And the demand for those services is increasing.
And the money for the stock is increasing.
Yes, it's the right standard of staff, that's right.
Exactly, you've got to have knowledgeable people, because it's a bit useless, isn't it?
It's like me, you know, the internet, I find the internet just perplexing because it's, where do you find anything? There's no one to ask.
So having someone there to ask is very important.
I heard a girl say, the other day, that's tired of all the language books in the library.
She was a Spanish-speaking student, and she wanted to do a research, so she didn't use the language.
And she said, I used to cut the doctor at her.
So, a few more identities, I mean, why did they make it?
Well, either the library board or the librarians would make that decision, and it's a matter of what is the most, the services or the type of books that are most in demand.
That's all a matter of allocation of scarce resources.
Well, I mean, even if they're only with five or six times a year, that's the people who are taking one of those books.
And sometimes you put entities on numbers and things like that, and you get the human part of services, and it's not a way.
It's the things only used 20 times a year.
Do you know because of the study being 20 times a year?
No, it shouldn't be cut out because it's only used 20 times a year.
It should only be cut out if someone's demanding something that isn't provided or ready, wants to use it more frequently, and you've got to divert funding from one to another.
I mean, that's basically what it gets.
Anything gets down to ultimately it.
And it is a judgment quite often.
It's a subjective judgment as to whether what is going to be the best deployment of resources.
And sometimes it's necessary to perhaps to point out more forcefully that the decision is wrong.
I know that the people at the community didn't have enough people to get up and talk about that.
And there may have been alternative funding situations that weren't explored.
I'm not quite sure, yes, I don't know, that the answer.
All I can give is the stock standard answer is that it all gets back to the money.
But it's a judgment that's left in the hands of the librarians.
As to how they said, well, I mean, basically the library board will say we have X amount of dollars.
You spend it how you like?
We'll get into those.
And I go up there and there's things on the boards and there's things on all sorts of things.
And that's nothing going on.
Or very difficult.
So I think, whatever it is, are we by a package from somewhere and you get four to five sets or something?
So you get all this quite a little bit of a process.
And you get academics that doesn't relate to it.
Well, that's again, that's what I mean by subjective judgment.
That the librarian has made a judgment that it's best to put value for money because you get 45%.
No one's going to listen to them, but we got 45 of them.
Yeah, whereas you might only get 10 of the ones that people actually want to use.
And if issues and libraries are a classic point of knowing what you're doing.
Well, I think, I think, well, I think councilors still have the option.
They still have the opportunity to do these things.
Well, no, Kevin's the chairman of the Corporation Board
so that he is in a situation in Tallinn and the other councillors
who are from Manningham are able to do that.
So you still can get involved in...
..you know, this gets back to this and Bell just touched you on a very important point here.
This is the sort of division between the council and the business units as they call...
..or called.
This is something I referred to before about business units thinking,
well, they are totally independent and could run off and make their own decisions.
Well, they can't.
They've still got to come back.
And I suppose I should have said at that stage also that I...
..and I believe that the jury is still out on whether the current structure of having business units...
..at least on the hierarchy being independent of council, even though they're paid by the council...
..whether that's the best system.
I mean, getting...and that leads on to another matter, which is about the future,
is whether councils end up employing anybody.
I mean, New Zealand is a council that has seven staffs.
And, you know, quite a large council, huge budgets, but, you know, it's outsourced to everything.
Now, outsourcing can cause problems like the Mandan in Vermont, who's...
..or the Green Garbage Green White wasn't collected, because the contractor didn't like the look of it.
I was asked to be very significant, right?
Hello?
Oh!
I have to be careful.
There we go.
I'll just...I'll just bump it up and put it out.
Okay.
There's...
Well, they're under contract, but it's an in-house team that is actually the contractor.
They're in-house team Parks and Gardens.
Parks and Gardens, maintenance, the outdoor staff, is the greatest...
..the greatest reduction in staff of any.
I mean, if we're really...it was some reduction in door staff, but most of the acts for amalgamations,
..efficiency fell on the outdoor staff, where they went from, I think...
..I don't think...
It was about 140.
I think Boxville had 60 outdoor staffs, not a lotting had 80.
And now they've combined and got 40.
Hmm.
Yeah, that's right.
Some of that has been picked up by contractors, but for example,
..and street street in Stilman's In-house.
Some of the, well, the law and knowing and some of the other maintenance, outdoor, yeah.
But that's...it's stunning house that with the reduced staffing.
Definitely.
Good.
Good.
And the question of the staff's
..the attention from the owner of the town.
Oh, there.
Oh, there.
That's very generous.
For the family.
Oh, wonderful.
And not...
..it didn't not stop at Kelsey's stuff.
Oh, wonderful.
Thank you, Robert.

AV0031Mb

Good. Now, can I just say it's a privilege to be here and quite a feature.
So, a visit as the first mayor of Whitehorse, the city of Whitehorse,
certainly a great privilege to hold that position,
but it's going to be a great privilege to hold it in future too,
because seeing the first mayor, I think that it has been
gone extremely successfully given the limitations that obviously exists.
It's taken a number of months or a big taken number of months
for the new council to settle in, so you get to know one another.
There were, as you understand, I don't know, there were five ex-none-awarding councillors,
and I guess they knew one another pretty well, and there was me,
and there was four new ones. So, there were sort of half who knew one another,
and half who didn't, and as with any group, the group dynamics do come into play,
and you get to know and get on with different people, and you don't get on with everyone,
and occasionally over-issues you do divide, but by and large,
you always feel that in groups, that personalities that count, personalities.
And on issues, we have been very unified, I believe, which has been a great start.
We've generally come down on the same side together,
and I think that the same evokes do finalise as being unanimous,
which is a great relief. I've only had to use my casting vote once,
which I hate doing, and that was on a planning issue.
The developer, because I thought it was in my ward,
and I thought it was a reasonable proposal, given that it was for a lot less units
than the developer could have had, so we have proved that, just on my casting vote.
Some of the neighbours are a bit upset, and the developer then went off and asked for the film
amount that he could have got, and the AAT came back by a couple,
so he ended up getting a lot more than the council approved on my casting vote.
So I thought, well, if that's the worst that I can do with my casting vote on it, don't do it badly.
I shouldn't ramble too much. I should say that the period that this last year in campuses
is part of a transition period with our undergoing and local government
as in the community generally, transition, change, or discussing it before,
change and change seems to have been with us for a long time.
I think the pace of change has gathered. Change is always with us.
It's the pace that has gathered pace in the last gathered, has become faster in the last couple of years.
And I think that hopefully, hopefully, it'll slow.
I don't think we can keep up with all this change.
And change for change's sake is never good. It must be an improvement.
And I'm sure that everyone will agree that not all the change has been to the better.
Some of the things that we've valued in the past, which might have seen a bit antiquated to some people,
were in fact very good.
But they've been swept away, and we've moved on.
I think in some ways, maybe we'll go back to what we're doing before having experienced the new system.
But certainly so far as local government reform is concerned,
I think generally it has been a success and very much overdue.
And my organisations were something that probably should have happened 10, 15 years ago,
and for various reasons didn't.
Successive governments, liberal and labor, did undertake studies to review the amalgamations.
And for whatever reason, the political forces, all of these things just take time before they actually take hold.
And of course, a couple of years ago, they did take hold with the vengeance.
There's still suggestions that further amalgamations can occur, probably more up the bush,
where some of the councils are struggling financially than in the city.
But even in the city, who knows what's going to happen to Darriban, where the council is dismissed.
But in Whitehorse, I think that the actual amalgamation has worked well.
And overall, I'll give a fairly rosy view of the events and the outcomes.
Other people may be different, people have different perspectives, there's no doubt.
But I believe that firstly, the council works harmoniously.
We do have differences over perhaps emphasis and some of the priorities that we'd like to see,
but by and large, we do agree on many things.
The division between Box Hill and Nada Wadding, I think was more in people's minds than the reality,
because, as everyone knows, in this society, it was originally one Shire.
It was split when the two Eastern wards districts wanted to appreciate what was going on the other end of town,
and the side of the lake had made better on their own.
And for 50 years, did so, very successfully, or actually 70 years, wasn't it?
Did so, 60 something years, 65 was it?
25 to 95, nearly 60, nearly 69 years.
So, it worked, well, it worked probably well for 50 years and probably the last 10 or so years.
Perhaps, you know, as I said, amalgamation could have occurred then.
And because I think with communications, the fact that the area is well settled, well developed, we're very much, you know,
the sort of development that has occurred in particularly in the north and south of Box Hill,
in Mitchum, in parts of Nada Wadding, certainly in Vermont,
I'm talking about the post-war development, very much the same.
And you've got the similar sort of community, I believe, throughout those areas.
And I think that it isn't hard to work together.
We're not, it's not as though, trying to combine Werribee and Frankston, it's, you know, we are next to one another.
And I think that people have taken the attitude that we work together and people are very, there's a lot of good will, which I think is wonderful.
Having said that, it's also important that societies, different community groups, do maintain their own character and their own individuality.
Such as this group.
The Box Hill group is going to look at one particular part of the history of the city.
And this group looks at a different part of the history of the city.
And I don't think that there's any need to have a white horse community or white horse historic society.
I think that having the two works perfectly well, perfectly well.
So why disturb the natural growth of these two organisations?
The administrative and financial affairs of the city, we did go through a very rough patch following amalgamation with the administration.
The first CEO, I think everyone would recognise, was in a great, a great appointment.
It was perhaps an inappropriate one given her background and she just wasn't suited to the task.
But that meant that the city didn't have a lot of the problems solved, administrative problems solved and the council was reelected.
And a lot of those issues that were of amalgamation and having the right structures in place were still being undertaken when the council came back into office.
And so I did put us behind to some extent.
And I think it was a great credit to everyone, staff and council and the community in particular, that people were for bearing and understood that there were these problems.
And they surfaced from time to time and hopefully are being dealt with.
We still get a lot of problems.
And I don't think we'll ever get the sort of personal service that council, two council administrations with 70 or 80% more staff was able to give than we now have.
Because we just don't have that same level of resources.
And before coming here, I went down and saw somebody who was having a little bit of trouble with the collection contractors and those sort of things happen.
And it's just a matter of perhaps being people being a bit more careful.
The administration going out of their way to be customer oriented as it's called, or citizen oriented as it really is.
And it's an attitudinal thing that really needs to change perhaps in the administration still.
And we're always saying it.
And if we keep saying it, maybe it'll happen one day, that the council administration will realise all members of the council administration, most do.
But some don't.
That the residents actually own the city.
And they're the bosses.
And they're not customers.
Not as though they're walking into Mars or Cowls or Big W or something.
Actually own it.
And people should be very respectful of our points of view as residents because we do pay the bills.
And we live here.
And we want to make the place as nice as possible and function as well as possible.
But we like a bit of courtesy and good service.
So there are a few attitudinal sort of things that happen.
I mean even as councillors, we do get problems with some of the administration making decisions.
I might reference it all.
It happened recently.
I brought up an issue and the resident had raised.
The officers looked into it, gave me some advice, right, to the residents in the area and got their view.
Got their views back.
And in the office it made the decision.
And the week later told me, well, you know, you just wonder what you're doing there.
In the office of them making these decisions.
Particularly it's something that the council has been involved with.
And the residents find out through this sort of rather qualitative letter.
So it's not the way to go.
A lot of those issues still need to be refined and people realise that there is a democracy here that needs to be in better working order perhaps.
I've mentioned the councillors.
As I said, we've worked reasonably well.
You'll always get differences.
And as I said, the differences that I've ever experienced in council are more over personality than over issues.
You can resolve issues, but you can't resolve personality differences.
And doesn't mean that everyone on council is always going to be your best mate.
As political parties find, they still have people on their side of politics that perhaps they really can't stand.
But they get on well with someone from the other side of politics.
That happens, that personality, it probably happens more at council where there's less of a political divide and it's more of a personality situation.
But we get on reasonably well having said that and also having said about the success of an organization, certainly from my perspective, I do believe that,
well there is no doubt that my having been the first mayor, or mayor this year, the next mayor will come from the eastern end of the city.
I think that people still are aware of the divide.
There's no doubt.
You can't deny it.
I'm just saying that by and large, given that the divide was there for 69 years, we've been quite successful in two or three years in sort of gradually bringing people together and start to think about white horse
rather than the way we used to do it and unawiting or the way we used to do it and box hill, those sort of things.
That takes time to go.
But I think we have been very successful in getting people to start thinking more about on a white horse, on a city wide perspective.
The issues that are mostly have arisen in the city, the primary one really is planning.
I talked before about being in a period of transition where I would hope that pace slows.
In fact, in planning, it is increasing.
We're receiving more and more applications.
The cycle is such at the moment the economic development cycle is such that developers, financiers, and other people,
and others who sort of propel the building cycle are focusing on residential redevelopment.
It's probably more happening in the older areas, but you do get, for example, the old school sites, the one on Heatherdale Road,
came up just before Christmas, and I don't believe many of those have been handled properly.
Some of them have.
Some of them aren't bad, but I think a number of the old school sites, for example, which should be an example of good planning,
good development, and good quality housing.
I think it's been just a matter of how many people can we cram on there, and how much can we get for it,
how can we maximise our dollar.
It's really been to my observation.
There is, I think one or two exceptions, but to my observation, there has been a grab for the dollar
and to hell with the people who are going to live there, and the community around,
which has been a great pity.
There's no doubt that developments these days are far more intense.
I'm not saying that you should have quarter-eighted blocks on these sites.
I think that we must recognise that the nature of the household these days is much different to what it was,
say 40 or 50 years ago, when there were families, you know, the two parent, three or four children
in the family, was the norm, today it's the exception, and we are very much having to refashion our suburbs
to reflect that situation.
There are more single people, there are more single parent households than there were, say 20 or 30 years ago,
and that's the demographic change that we must recognise in the economy or in the development, the housing development of the city.
What we're trying to do slowly, and we've had a couple of goes at it, is trying to institute some standards
which meet the government's criteria for urban consolidation, as they call it,
and the government's mainly in main interest in all this, is not whether people like the housing,
it's to stop them moving down a pack and then we'll just see, because it's all too far out and it stresses the infrastructure dollar,
and it means that people living right on the outskirts of the city can not exactly, it's not the best locality for people,
it can be very lonely in these new suburbs. It is better living in an established suburb, you've got a lot of the community organisations,
the infrastructure and people with the safety net to pick people up if they do run into strife,
and also generally they're slightly more affluent and there's a few more dollars to support people.
And I think that, so from that point of view, the government's policy, I think is the right one,
but how it actually is implemented is the difficulty. How do we actually accommodate 4,000 or however many units are rejected for this city,
given that you do have quarter-acre blocks and you do have cream brick veneer houses or you have Californian bungalows
a sort of uniformity on the street, do just plant one of these sort of six packs in there,
and sort of two-story brick thing or two-up slab things that look totally out of place.
And we're trying to make sure that they do have some commonality with the streetscape, that they do enhance it,
it's not to say they have to replicate it, we don't want people building cream brick veneer houses, it means that it does have some,
it does pay some dues to what is there, it has recognises what is there already and tries to fit in.
You can't, I mean, some of the Ministry of Housing developments of the 70s and 80s, you know, they're very prissy,
you know, they had a lot of gaudy, um, um, um, waste work or barge boards or whatever, and, um, dorm or windows and all that sort of thing,
that, um, they stood out, and they were a bit too ahead at the top, I mean, you can tone it down and try to make it fit in as well as you can.
So planting is one area that we're still coming to groups with, we don't want everything looking the same,
but we don't want it to outrageously different, and we don't want, as is common these days, double story developments that try to cram, say,
four on a block where there was one, I think the intensity of those developments is too great, and we, it isn't, it isn't so much one in the street,
just that once you let one in, obviously, you know, how, how the rest of the suburb is going to go, or the rest of the street, and, um, do you really want a sort of replay of,
or modern day version of the St. Kilda of the 60s, 50s and 60s, where you have these three-story brick veneer blocks, and, um, they're very ugly,
and they, they took out some beautiful old houses, and in 30 or 40 years time, people might look at some of these cream brick veneer houses and think, they're not too bad,
we can fix them up, they can paint them up and put a few sort of ornamentation on them and make them look quite nice and renovate them inside,
and they, they can come up quite nicely, so, and they're well built, they're very well built, and got good insulation, et cetera.
The, um, talking about planning and the other mentions before, the heritage aspect, in respect to 35 Blackburn Road,
we, we are certainly, and this is perhaps something that, if we'd been a, if the, an organization had taken places a little bit earlier, we would have been on top of a bit earlier also,
well, sorry, in the organization taken earlier, if the administrative reform had really been put in place earlier,
as I said, there was this hick-a-thick-a-th-in getting it actually in place because of the people that were involved earlier on.
Um, the heritage study needs to be undertaken before we lose too many of our good housing stock, housing in particular,
again, the old child offices, for example, so we must work very quickly, and we have appointed a consultant who hopefully will work quickly,
called Lovell Alum, or something like that, who is undertaking a survey of the whole city to identify these sites, the houses, and other sites that should be preserved as part of the heritage of the city.
We also have Commission Day Heritage Study on 35 Blackburn Road, we're waiting to try to extricate that from the consultant at the moment,
so we can send that into the heritage, heritage Victoria.
Um, another issue in confronting the Council is the redevelopment of Box Hill.
Box Hill Commercial Centre has went through a period of neglect and also suffered from the downturn in commercial, the commercial cycle of the early 90s,
and it moving the child of Council officers from Box Hill up to, now the lighting probably had an impact as well, even if a psychological one.
And it does need a lot of attention, but the full success of Box Hill resides in private investment.
Council can do something like we've opened up Redeveloped Carrington Road, and we'll do the mall and a few other areas of the medium strip and those sorts of things.
It's pretty at alphabet and perhaps make it look more interesting for the shoppers and people who are going to restaurants and other visitors to that commercial centre,
but it really does depend on private investment to be a success, and any shopping precinct, commercial precinct does need a constant cycle of investment,
and it really hasn't had one down there since the mid 80s when Box Hill Central was built, and it's looking a little bit tired and old.
You can't let these things split because once they do split the little bit and they keep slipping, eventually they go under because everyone thinks,
well, why would you invest any money down there? It's just not worth it. And then the forest hills and the non-castas get the upper hand,
it's also even burk road has been very successful. That's sort of come back quite strongly.
So it is in a very difficult situation, Box Hill.
I've mentioned about the planning issues, but urban, my next point, is on urban restoration and improvement, and by that I mean not the private redevelopment housing redevelopment,
but the sort of works that the Council is embarking on to improve streetscapes, parks, sporting facilities, shopping centres, other than Box Hill is one,
but certainly mid-term and we just don't know what to do with not a watering. That's a hard one.
But eventually, we've had a few thoughts about it. It's just a very difficult one and a watering.
And I guess someone's going to, it's going to be eventually something that we do in conjunction with Bicrods and perhaps the PTC so far as that railway line,
which makes it very difficult how to do something with it.
We had a meeting with Bicrods about six months ago and we were trying to discuss various options that could be used there.
I don't know how it happened, but the member for Knox is very persuasive. He managed to get the PTC to spend $20 million doing a split grade at Dorset Road at Baronia Railway Station.
Baronia Dorset Road has hardly the traffic of Springvale Road, but he got them to spend all that money down there. Maybe it's a political thing. Maybe it's not quite sure why.
But I would have thought if it's possible, if it is at all possible, we should do something about, no, not a watering, that Springvale Road.
To assist both the traffic flow because it's a terrible bottleneck.
And particularly now the freeway has gone up to Springvale Road. You've got a lot of traffic coming down there.
And it's a very, and coming up Springvale Road to the freeway. And it's a very tricky one. They say the grades are just wrong.
There are ways to close to Whitehorse Road, but I don't know. It seems to me that there must be some solution, but a very expensive one.
And again, it would probably impact on some of the shops on Springvale Road.
But it's something that we haven't given up, like an organization's. It's time will come. It's time will come. We'll just keep working on it.
Now, a good method. Another area we're trying to improve kindergarten and health centres down in Box Hill End, Box Hill South, and Box Hill North.
There is a family daycare, family day centre or family centre, family centres. And it's a large centre which incorporates the child and community of child health service.
The various community activities that provide meeting rooms. There are kinders. There are play groups. There's what else down there.
All the up-bose, those are the major constituents, but having them all in the one centre and a lot of our older kindergartens are in very old facilities.
And perhaps not appropriate any longer. So, I hope to upgrade those as part of this urban improvement.
I guess I've covered most of the issues that are confronting us. And just to end up on an historic perspective, as I said at the outset, we are in a period of transition.
The transition period will continue for a few more years before. I think we do settle down to something which approximates an ongoing norm.
I think it will probably be certainly the aim of this council by the time we come up for re-election two years time to say that we have finished the transition.
And now we're about actually building on the future. We are doing that now, but I think we can be focused more on that.
There's still a lot of question marks over our government attitudes, but perhaps we'll resolve those issues in the longer term.
And we will work together with the government to achieve some of our common ambitions.
The other issue about the future, which I've mentioned, the future I think will be very much one of urban improvement that greater controls.
I somehow feel that councils will eventually get more control over planning issues. It's gone one way, and certainly the gates have been open for a while, but I think it's gone too far.
And we're going to start cutting back on some of the development that we've been seeing. The type of development is not the number, but I think that councils will gather more if we can get our act together amongst councils and act unifiably unitedly.
We will actually achieve a lot more. The future, this city is in very good financial condition, I should say. We've got a lot of money in the bank. Our rates are too low. We're told. I'm sure you'd all agree.
But it depends on what you want out of the Council. We're off rating it a lot less than we're spending the money on physical improvement. We're not spending it on to the same extent on just administration.
I think that's a big improvement. And that's the one reason, if only for that reason and the organization is being worth it. We've stopped spending so much on administration and we've turned that money into actually doing things that people can appreciate and benefit from.
So that's all I've got to say. And if there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Thank you.
Thank you.
So there's a question or two that we should say how pleased we are that that heritage heritage or whatever the name of the consultant has been pointed because they have been something of concern to us. And I'm sure it has been to the Council too because it's been a reactionary situation you've been in.
And I guess we've seen buildings go down, lovely old homes. And I think this has kept them more down in the western end of the city and actual fact.
So, you know, it's a good example of all these homes that are going to be detected in the future of the Senate.
So we are going to have children and their children to work with this consultant and a little more to the outcome of his report.
So we have a question for the question that you were comfortable with.
Yes, Jane.
I'm happy to see some of the buildings going by, you know, in a problem.
Yep.
It's a council to be a bit firm about right now.
Well, there's only one school site left and that's the Hepidar Road one, which we've rejected the proposal there.
That was really just an over-center-oat.
It was an over-development of the site. There's no doubt.
The one site is the old, I think it's Boxle, Tec, or it's Boxle South, Tec on the corner of Eley Road and Middle Borough Road.
Oak would rise.
Now, that isn't a bad development. That was done by the Urban Land Authority.
And so I guess that they were a little bit lighter with their pens in drawing on boxes on the map.
And they did preserve a number of trees there for a common area, which is quite attractive.
And it's to be hoped that if there are any at center road, that center road is it?
There's that it would be as a day of the preserve too.
I mean, the proposal, as I said, up there was really quite intensive. It's about 58 units, 58 residences.
So hopefully, yes, the trees will be preserved where possible.
Can't always preserve trees.
We've already gone to see the old, heavy-dirt, face, and the faster the trees will make the best of us.
That's not the same one.
Right.
That's been developed. That's been developed. All right.
Yeah.
I'm not doing that.
Yes.
I'm not doing that.
No, well, a number of developments, the developers get in there with the chainsaw and then put an application in.
And you can't, well, what you can do is to say, well, you've got to put back a mature tree.
A customer, a bit of money.
Yeah.
And that's one thing we can insist on.
Even if the trees have to be relocated, if they put back a 10-year-old tree, it's going to cost a lot of money.
An extension, I think, to James' question, who would they wear the city used for the tree preservation policy
or order on this? My name is
because then he tends to see and it takes a brave council to approve it.
Because the community is always a bit divided on the stricturally placed on them.
That really was Joan, behind Joan's question is that's the only way that we can save the tree is for the council to have tree preservation
order on certain types of trees where they could decide for example, both the selection of fish and fire and haystack.
So, I think that was extended, you know, to other areas, very trees.
The example that I'm dealing with is a very tree area where I think when Australia and 90s were being planted from the city, all the years ago, I know a very substantial tree area, and it's just a very preservation order that I do and would save it.
I think it is a very difficult thing and I have this council, like, that in hand, we've seen many of these, some of them, some of them have been like, coming from tree preservation.
There's tree preservation is an issue of everyone thinks it's good for other people and yes, we'll preserve other people's trees, but if I want to cut down my tree, well, I should be able to.
I guess we should have, well, I guess people should be able to, if they feel that they want to cut down a tree for whatever reason, I guess they can other than the black burn area, the special zone, but so far as developers are concerned, then we would want to preserve.
And that does form part of the development strategy that we would preserve trees where possible.
Obviously, I mean, it's a very difficult one, even in the black burn area, we had an example recently in La Burnham Street where the block was subdivided, a terrible building would put on one plot, and the applicant came along to the tree.
They came along to build similar building on their block, but it had three big trees in the middle, because they're right in the middle of the block, so you couldn't really build much on it at all.
And so it does create a problem. A couple of those trees might have to go, but it's a matter of compromising those situations. They get a smaller house, or a differently located house, but a couple of the trees are preserved, not withstanding the fact that they perhaps may be dangerous trees being gum.
They do drop big limbs, and they can cause a bit of damage when that happens. That's something I guess you live with if you live in black burn, and one of the problems, but if you live elsewhere, trees are very much a case-by-case situation.
But so far as possible, we've got a very large site, and you do have a number of mature trees, significant trees, and certainly we'd be looking to, that would be part of our planning strategy.
What we're trying to is, it's the old idea that the only plant trees that don't have root systems is gone, and undoubtedly we'll have problems with footpaths in 10 or 20 years time, but at least we'll have the trees.
So, there's another issue, that aerial bundling or undergrounding cables, and I guess one day people might decide, yeah, it's worth the cost to underground it.
So, there's a black light on the city. Yes, exactly. I like the mural, the mural, the tree, the furniture and sun, and that's the paint and green.
That's great, that's great. Well, hopefully they'll come out in more sympathetic colours and future actual signs. That was the signs of pretty ordinary.
So, I don't think any other Christians, but I think it's done.
I think the first thing that happened to them is, was really very much the same thing, that it was really the wrong thing in the area, and it was just a little thing in the background. I think it had the idea that now they're just ready to buy footsteps that people want to live with, but they're not.
They should be providing foot foot for the tenors that we have to come, but people who were 30 months ago have to be found in them.
Well, I guess it's a period of libraries have gone through the same sort of transition period that many other services have, which has suffered cutbacks with less funds.
There have been more heavily dealt with than others than some others. Council's got caught a little bit by the state government withdrawing funding support for libraries and gradually moved into supplement that reduction, but then found their own finances under pressure, and something had to give.
What is an adequate level of any service? I guess as long as we maintain a service which is available, so particularly at peak times.
One of the problems with libraries, and I guess it's been a problem with government services for a long time, is that quite often those services are not available and most people want them, weekends, night times, etc.
If you pay penalty rates and you've cranced all sorts of financial problems.
And maybe, you know, gradually I'm not quite sure of the award conditions for librarians and other service providers, but undoubtedly, I think eventually, eventually, the same sort of conditions that apply in the retail industry and hospitality,
where there are no, perhaps, over time, payments, penalty payments may prevail and give flexibility to the service.
It's very important to provide the service, very important to have the resources, the book stock, and that's something that must be maintained.
And the demand for those services is increasing.
And the money for the stock is increasing.
Yes, it's the right standard of staff, that's right.
Exactly, you've got to have knowledgeable people, because it's a bit useless, isn't it?
It's like me, you know, the internet, I find the internet just perplexing because it's, where do you find anything? There's no one to ask.
So having someone there to ask is very important.
I heard a girl say, the other day, that's tired of all the language books in the library.
She was a Spanish-speaking student, and she wanted to do a research, so she didn't use the language.
And she said, I used to cut the doctor at her.
So, a few more identities, I mean, why did they make it?
Well, either the library board or the librarians would make that decision, and it's a matter of what is the most, the services or the type of books that are most in demand.
That's all a matter of allocation of scarce resources.
Well, I mean, even if they're only with five or six times a year, that's the people who are taking one of those books.
And sometimes you put entities on numbers and things like that, and you get the human part of services, and it's not a way.
It's the things only used 20 times a year.
Do you know because of the study being 20 times a year?
No, it shouldn't be cut out because it's only used 20 times a year.
It should only be cut out if someone's demanding something that isn't provided or ready, wants to use it more frequently, and you've got to divert funding from one to another.
I mean, that's basically what it gets.
Anything gets down to ultimately it.
And it is a judgment quite often.
It's a subjective judgment as to whether what is going to be the best deployment of resources.
And sometimes it's necessary to perhaps to point out more forcefully that the decision is wrong.
I know that the people at the community didn't have enough people to get up and talk about that.
And there may have been alternative funding situations that weren't explored.
I'm not quite sure, yes, I don't know, that the answer.
All I can give is the stock standard answer is that it all gets back to the money.
But it's a judgment that's left in the hands of the librarians.
As to how they said, well, I mean, basically the library board will say we have X amount of dollars.
You spend it how you like?
We'll get into those.
And I go up there and there's things on the boards and there's things on all sorts of things.
And that's nothing going on.
Or very difficult.
So I think, whatever it is, are we by a package from somewhere and you get four to five sets or something?
So you get all this quite a little bit of a process.
And you get academics that doesn't relate to it.
Well, that's again, that's what I mean by subjective judgment.
That the librarian has made a judgment that it's best to put value for money because you get 45%.
No one's going to listen to them, but we got 45 of them.
Yeah, whereas you might only get 10 of the ones that people actually want to use.
And if issues and libraries are a classic point of knowing what you're doing.
Well, I think, I think, well, I think councilors still have the option.
They still have the opportunity to do these things.
Well, no, Kevin's the chairman of the Corporation Board
so that he is in a situation in Tallinn and the other councillors
who are from Manningham are able to do that.
So you still can get involved in...
..you know, this gets back to this and Bell just touched you on a very important point here.
This is the sort of division between the council and the business units as they call...
..or called.
This is something I referred to before about business units thinking,
well, they are totally independent and could run off and make their own decisions.
Well, they can't.
They've still got to come back.
And I suppose I should have said at that stage also that I...
..and I believe that the jury is still out on whether the current structure of having business units...
..at least on the hierarchy being independent of council, even though they're paid by the council...
..whether that's the best system.
I mean, getting...and that leads on to another matter, which is about the future,
is whether councils end up employing anybody.
I mean, New Zealand is a council that has seven staffs.
And, you know, quite a large council, huge budgets, but, you know, it's outsourced to everything.
Now, outsourcing can cause problems like the Mandan in Vermont, who's...
..or the Green Garbage Green White wasn't collected, because the contractor didn't like the look of it.
I was asked to be very significant, right?
Hello?
Oh!
I have to be careful.
There we go.
I'll just...I'll just bump it up and put it out.
Okay.
There's...
Well, they're under contract, but it's an in-house team that is actually the contractor.
They're in-house team Parks and Gardens.
Parks and Gardens, maintenance, the outdoor staff, is the greatest...
..the greatest reduction in staff of any.
I mean, if we're really...it was some reduction in door staff, but most of the acts for amalgamations,
..efficiency fell on the outdoor staff, where they went from, I think...
..I don't think...
It was about 140.
I think Boxville had 60 outdoor staffs, not a lotting had 80.
And now they've combined and got 40.
Hmm.
Yeah, that's right.
Some of that has been picked up by contractors, but for example,
..and street street in Stilman's In-house.
Some of the, well, the law and knowing and some of the other maintenance, outdoor, yeah.
But that's...it's stunning house that with the reduced staffing.
Definitely.
Good.
Good.
And the question of the staff's
..the attention from the owner of the town.
Oh, there.
Oh, there.
That's very generous.
For the family.
Oh, wonderful.
And not...
..it didn't not stop at Kelsey's stuff.
Oh, wonderful.
Thank you, Robert.
Good. Thank you.
Thank you.