Bill Hurley Fraser Interview Transcript Amy: It is the 18th of May 2023. Amy Tsilemanis here in Apollo Bay. I am chatting to the one and only Bill Hurley. Bill: Thanks for having me in. Amy: So yeah, if you'd just start by telling me where and when you were born. Bill: I was born in Yeppoon actually in middle Queensland just near the Keppel Islands there. The story goes that I was born under a mango tree, but I don't really know how true that is. Moved down here at under two years of age to Northcote and then to Apollo Bay at three years old. So, thirty five now, so I've spent the percentage of my life in Apollo Bay. Amy: And what brought your folks here? Bill: We've had family connections for a long time. My dad's side of the family goes right back to as I was explaining to you earlier, to Maitland Bryant, who was one of the original travellers around here that Maits [00:01:00] Rest is named after. So, the original rumour was that that's where he stopped to rest his horses in between Lavers Hill and Apollo Bay, but there's a bit of a family rumour that there was a lovely lady living around the area and that was the real reason that he stopped in on his way here. Amy: I love it. Someone was just in earlier telling a story about him getting lost in the forest. Bill: Not that I know of, but it wouldn't surprise me. Back then it would have been pretty dense forest. Like they were logging a lot of it, but there was still a lot of old growth. And there still is some patches of old growth forest around that area. It's a bit of a trek sort of northeast from where Maits Rest is. But yeah, still some of the original untouched old growth forest around there. Amy: Yeah, thinking about maps I've been talking to people about all the different changes in transport technology as well, getting in here, obviously before the roads were here. Some people walked here, [00:02:00] it's so fascinating, I guess yeah, the roads were here when you came. Bill: Yeah, yeah, it was all pretty set up when I was here. Amy: Would you have come down the Great Ocean Road? Bill: Oh, for sure. For sure. When I would have first moved to live here, we would have come down the Great Ocean Road. Actually my dad tells a story that coming down the Great Ocean Road because he had the boat on the back of the car and it came off the hook onto your car and he couldn't actually stop so we had to drive the whole length of the Great Ocean Road, pretty much dragging the boat behind us Amy: the image of that, like, two modes of transport kind of making their way back to the ocean. Bill: Yeah, the whole family car just jam packed and a boat as well, being dragged, literally dragged behind to get down here. Amy: So what was your childhood like? Bill: Ah, wonderful down here. Like times are sort of changing with, you know, a lot of different things and kids and technology and that sort of stuff. But I was of the era where mum was sort of like, get home by dark and you can do whatever you want in town, so quite frequently, we would be jumping neighbours fences the whole way through, I know almost every house in Apollo Bay from just being a little shit of a kid, you know, playing in people's hedges or on the roofs of holiday houses and just running amok around town. Amy: Aww, I love it that's interesting to think about, this idea of napping, you know, the place where we live or the places where we live, like you've actually kind of jumped the rooftops. Bill: Yeah, yeah, exactly. A lot of like the foreshore area, I think I would have explored every square metre from here to Marengo, through all the scrub and we had our old little tracks and spots where we'd hang out. And then as we got older, when we were, you know, go and pinch a six pack of somebody's dad's beers or whatever and sit in a little area in the sand dunes and enjoy our first beers. Amy: Oh, something about yeah, getting illegal beers and having them at the beach. Bill: Yeah, definitely. Oh, it's a tradition in Apollo Bay. I think if you ask anybody that you'd interview here, they would have the foreshore somewhere along there, along those lines. Amy: Amazing. You went away and came back? Bill: Eventually, like, well first I went to kinder here. Then I went to school here as well through prep to year 12. There were some really good teachers there that ran the outdoor education classes. Some that are still around are Darren Gill, Sandy Gay, Brian Humphries that did a lot of like bushwalking tours with us, surfing classes, introduction to the ocean and snorkelling and those sort of things, and as well as organizing more sort of knowledge from traditional owners as well. So quite often we would go out with people like Bruce [00:05:00] Pascoe who was living here at the time and they would show us around like the Cape Otway area or even, you know, the dunes sort of right in front of us here at the cable station and, you know, point out what was edible and what was meaningful and the stories and lore. So that was probably one of the more interesting things of being, going to school down here. Like, I remember when I moved away to Europe eventually of telling people that, you know, every Friday our class was surfing. They wouldn't believe that we would just have a two hour surfing class or snorkelling. And like, we'd just be thrown in, you know. Pretty basic, here's how a snorkel works, here it is, figure it out, get out there. I'll never forget the first time we did it inside the harbour. And somebody must have caught a big shark, a mako shark or something. And they cut the head off and the head was down in the seaweed. And you couldn't see it and we were learning how to snorkel and you moved the seaweed and then this giant mako shark head with its mouth open was in there. Yeah, distinct memories of those sort of things happening. Yeah. I remember being in rock pools when I was a kid and you know, reaching in one day we found like a knife in this rock pool and putting our head in to pick up this knife and a giant octopus wrapped around my face in the rock pool. So a lot of adventuring as a kid with school and outside of school as well. Fishing, diving, just, you know, being in and around the ocean and that sort of the literal zone around that for the tidal lines and stuff. It's pretty unique here, the way that it changes with the high tides, especially around this time of year and Easter of going 0.1 tides to 2. 2 meter tides, it's such a different changing literal zone out there. Amazing. Amy: Amazing. Because is there some special kind of ecosystem of weather here as well? Bill: Yeah, I've always thought, I don't know whether this is official through the Bureau of Meteorology or anything, but I definitely think Apollo Bay has its own weather patterns. Quite often I'll be spending time down the coast somewhere as, you know close as Lorne and it's a beautiful sunny day and then you come along the Great Ocean Road and you get to Skenes Creek and Apollo Bay is just covered in these dark grey clouds. I don't know, you learn to love it though. Amy: Yeah So water obviously has been a big part of your life. Bill: Yeah, definitely. Well, I grew up around it. My dad was a very keen recreational fisherman, but also tied in with the commercial fishing industry, and he was a seafood chef as well. So a lot of those early years hanging out around at the co op and seeing how things work and, you know, being chucked in with the lobster tanks and stuff because the fishermen thought it was a hilarious joke or, you know, measured up against the giant tuna and those sort of things. Amy: Oh, so yeah, you've been right in there. It makes sense now with the seafood festival… Bill: I'm the one that is dealing with those sort of things and fishing a lot myself now. I just was out on the boat in between King Island and Lavers Hill a couple of weeks ago and caught a 110 kilo tuna off there. So that was quite an epic experience to do something like that. Amy: What was that like? Tell me about that experience. Bill: I've never had anything like it before. It was endurance. It was just adrenaline. It was insane. A lot of people fish these fishes like trophy fish. We weren't doing it for that, but it was a trophy fish. The fish was 110 kilos. We got, by the time we gutted, bled, scaled, did all of that, we ended up with 95 kilos of meat off of the fish and fed half the town for, you know, sashimi that in Japan people pay thousands of dollars for, so, but the actual catching it itself was just such a surreal thing of the fight is on of something that's so, you've got to respect that you know, an animal and a creature like that, but at the same time to be able to get it in is like a real accomplishment sort of thing, but yeah, two hours it took me and nearly a kilometre of fishing line to reel it in. So, yeah, pretty crazy. And then it took three of us to actually lift it into the boat. And when we got the boat down and weighed it up and took it down, we actually needed a forklift to lift the tuna out of the boat. I've got some photos. The local guys down at the sheds down here have got a pretty good setup with their filleting tables and forklifts and stuff. Amy: Oh, yeah. I'd love to see the photo. And, and so you said it fed the [00:10:00] whole town, how did that work? Bill: Yeah. Well, like you know, you owe people a favor or what not and I just got in my car for the next two days literally I was just driving around to people's houses. When you catch them out at sea, they're a hot blooded animal. There's not many hot blooded fish out there. So, because they're fighting so hard, they heat up so much. So when you catch the fish, you actually have to bleed them straight away. Kill them humanely. Bleed them and then you fill them with ice and cool them down so that the meat is at its best. So from then you want, you know, within the next few days that fish is like the best eating sashimi in the world. So we got it on the forklift and chainsaws and whatnot to cut it all up. And then, yeah, I spent two days delivering it around to people's houses. Amy: Delicious things delivered. Ah, beautiful. I was just thinking with the swimming as well, where did you learn to swim? Bill: Originally down here we did, like, swimming classes from a very early age. Even from kindergarten times we were brought up to the school pool and learnt there. I was taught as well by my family, but then through the school sports and stuff in primary school. And then into my very early teens, 11, 12, 13 through the Surf Lifesaving Club down here. We did our bronze, did our Duke of Edinburgh. So from like quite an early age, I was very comfortable around the ocean. And it's paid off a lot over the years. There's been a couple of times where I've rescued people off here that have been stuck in bad surf and you know, could potentially drown. The nature of the ocean here, looking out this window right now, it's beautiful today and glassy offshore winds and stuff but it can change very, very quickly. Amy: That's a good skill to have, that like have you just been minding your own business and then someone's suddenly in a dire situation? Bill: Oh, mostly it's foreign travellers that come down here and don't understand the ocean and get too close and try and take a photo and get swept in and then you've got to try and get them in. But there's been other times where I've been out with just inexperienced surfers or one time there was a guy on a kayak who got sucked out and he was panicking and he had a heart attack so we had to leave out getting his kayak and paddling back into town. Yeah, you kind of feel good to be able to help people out like that, but I think it's something that the state government should be putting more in towards and our local council and everything as well GORCAPA. I know the local surf lifesaving club are having a lot of trouble here with their expansion. I think it's something that's super important that should be [00:13:00] really put more value towards. There were two drownings just on the other side of Cape Otway a week ago or something. Yeah, really sad. Some uni students that were down here. Were trying to do abalone fishing on a day that, like, the sea here, I wouldn't even go in to surf. It was that dangerous. So it's, it's very silly and those people obviously just weren't educated to how dangerous it was down there. Yeah, and two of them died, which is really sad. So, but, you know, the history of Apollo Bay is of those shipwrecks and everything. And we're sitting here at this historical society and there's the stories of the Casino, which is... Just out there if you swim out… so where we're doing this interview is for people that are listening, the Historical Society is about 100 metres offshore is the sinking of the Casino. On a low tide you can actually swim out and just see, you don't even need [00:14:00] snorkels or diving gear or anything. Amy: Okay, oh wow. Have you had much to do with yeah, shipwreck remains? Bill: Yeah, I've definitely found little bits over the years, potentially down near Blanket Bay and the other side of Cape Otway. You always find things and it's hard to tell, like, where that actually came from. Quite often, like, saucers or cups or something like that with really old dates that you think must have come off a shipwreck, so I've got a little collection of those things at home. Yeah, so I grew up here, went straight through school. Once I finished school here, I moved to Melbourne briefly. Studied music business there. Always have been in the hospitality scene to just pay my way through, you know, education. Then I moved to Europe for a couple of years and moved more into the events sort of side of things. Major sporting events and [00:15:00] Ascot and Henley Regatta and stuff that I never thought I'd see myself at. A whole different side of the world, but it was very interesting and I learned a lot about that. So when I first moved back to Apollo Bay from London with my Polish partner we intended to move back to Melbourne, but we made the decision to stay in Apollo Bay because she loved the community and the culture down here and the coastline and something that she had never really had before because growing up in Poland. In London, most people are assholes so she came here and started at childcare and then at the Food Works at the local supermarket and just was blown away by how nice the community was. So we kind of got pretty lucky by not moving back to Melbourne, and that I ended up falling into the Winter Wild Festival committee originally. I think it was two weeks after I [00:16:00] moved back in 2016 that Winter Wild had actually been announced for its first year, so I went through that and then a year later took over as director for the Apollo Bay Seafood Festival down here. It's part of a combination of what I've learnt from my living in Apollo Bay in connection to the seafood industry and hospitality, then my Melbourne music business scene, and then my overseas major events sort of stuff. I combined what I did with all of those and brought that into what I thought I could do in Apollo Bay. Amy: One of the themes coming through on my chats is the community spirit here. Yeah. Through time. Bill: Yeah. There's nothing like it, like anywhere else that I've been that I've, you know, just had such a tight knit community of people that are you know, even looking through the photos of people you've previously interviewed and just saying, yeah, that's these familiar [00:17:00] faces and, you know, recommending other names for people. It's like what I was saying about Zuzi when we first got down here, she loved the fact that it was so nice, and that everybody was really polite, but she also hated the fact that it took two hours to go down to Foodworks because you sort of talk to so many people, like you want to just go in there and get, you know, hot chicken and some broccoli or something for dinner, and you end up spending two hours talking to people in the supermarkets. Amy: Yeah, it's the flip side. Yeah. That makes me think about local food and things which I know you're passionate about as well. What's the scene like? Bill: Oh, it's amazing down here. Like, obviously I'm closest with the seafood industry doing work with the Fisherman's Co op there seafood industry of Victoria and many other bodies that I work with there. But outside of that, there's also a really interesting sort of land management and hunting and [00:18:00] farming situation at the moment with the problems with feral deer and feral pigs in the area. A really interesting group at the moment called the Dama Dama. Guys that they're doing the venison. So they're hunting the venison here and then turning it into a product that people can eat venison like the delicious food and it's such a bad thing for the environment down here as an introduced species, so You know, there's things like that down the coast further We've got the Great Ocean Ducks the team that run that such amazing to have you know the best ducks I've ever eaten. You get them at Brae, you get them at, you know, Attica. Like all the best restaurants in Victoria serve their ducks because they put the love into it down here. We've got some of the best cattle farmers in all of Australia down here. There's St Aire Beef and there's a few others around Beach Forest that focus on Wagyu that send them over [00:19:00] to Japan because it's so great. The mixture of land and what they eat and how they, how the people care for the animals. Amy: Are there any restaurants that bring that all together? Bill: Oh, definitely. There's a couple at the moment, which I'm really impressed with. In Lavers Hill, there is the Perch. So those guys do it really, really well. They're pretty new. New setup up there, but definitely worth going to check them out. Jules at Graze down here also runs a really good menu. Just focusing purely on local produce. Casalingo and Birdhouse and Sandy Feet are also very good at incorporating those sort of things into their menus. And then obviously the Apollo Bay Fisherman's Co op. Since I've been working with them we've transitioned a lot into using things that are only caught from Bass Strait and caught [00:20:00] from the boats that come in here. So, the Fisherman's Co op has just recently bought a small trawler which all of the fish from there come in and then be sold either at the wet fish market at Pascoe Street or up at the Harbour Co op where you can have a hot cooked and so they have like a seafood platter. That's on there that changes every day just depending on what comes in so traditionally the The Fisherman's Co op here has relied a lot more on export, overseas export, as well as taking the fish up to the Melbourne fish market, but because of what happened with the China trade market and COVID and all of those sort of things, there was a big transition into trying to reduce food miles and trying to get as many people around here to actually start eating that sort of stuff, and we've been working on a marketing program, about that, called the Local Catch Club. So you can go to the Fisherman's co [00:21:00] op website and you can sign up to the local catch club. It's like a mail chimp system And then when the boat comes in they'll radio in to Alan at the co op and he'll type up an email and say all right We've got six dory, we've got four boar fish, we've got all of this. They'll be filleted and ready to go up Pascoe Street at 3pm. And normally it sells out instantly, so it's such a great system to be able to, almost zero food miles from when the boat comes into the co op and people eat it. Amy: I love that, just thinking about the communication technology as well. They've got the call going in with the latest on the fish. Yeah, the internet is then used to disseminate that and then people come down. Bill: Oh, totally, it's so different, You never could have done that in the past and as well as that educating people about underutilized seafood really. I think there was a long time when I was a kid and I learned from dad working in the fishing [00:22:00] industry that and as a chef people just wanted to eat salmon, or snapper, or, you know, King George Whiting, flake, those sort of things. People weren't interested in these delicious other things, like octopus, or dorys, or boar fish, or gurnard, or stuff that looks pretty ugly but is some of the most tasty fish that you can possibly get. And it's a really good way, like the the octopus, for example, is kind of like a bycatch of the crayfish industry because they get stuck, they come in and they eat the crayfish in the cray pots and traditionally the crayfishermen would just kill them and throw them back out to sea. But now there's a market of people buying and eating the octopus. So they bring that in and it sort of created a new sort of type of food trend to eating it. So what we do with the festival is like the previous one that we just had on, we had a whole bunch of guest [00:23:00] chefs that came down, Jenna North from Lucy Lu's we had Rosa Mitchell come down, we had Paul West from River Cottage and all these chefs, we literally gave them one hibachi grill, and we gave them a big bucket full of local seafood and just said, you know, show people how easy it is to just cook basic great seafood. And we had a huge response from that. Amy: Yeah, I love, I love the harbour and the co op, can you describe what it's like when it's pumping down there? Bill: I try and avoid it on those sort of days because the queues and the lines and that are too big. So, like, where it is there is the crown jewel of Apollo Bay, it's the most beautiful place and probably along the whole Great Ocean Road, there's not anywhere really, there's nowhere as beautiful as that, that you can come in on a nice day, watch the boats actually come in, bring the crayfish off the boats, come up, be processed into there while you're eating [00:24:00] like a southern rock lobster or a seafood platter or something, it's pretty special. Amy: So I've been asking people, yeah, just about their favourite places as well. Obviously that's probably one that you just mentioned. But yeah, what other places do you love around, even in the odd ways further afield? Bill: Johanna Beach is very special to me. Being a keen surfer and fisherman, getting down there there's not that many days of the year that I feel comfortable surfing out there because it's such crazy surf and everything, but if you pick the right day, usually in summer when you have the light northeasterly winds and you know, late night sunsets and those sort of things, small swells, it's There's just a different feeling you get when you arrive in that area. It just feels special. I've had a few of the traditional owners explain to me why that is and they'll probably go more into that when you speak to them. But you can definitely tell it. Like I drive in there [00:25:00] and I get tingles and just feel so great about it all. When we did the Great Ocean Walk in Covid when there was nobody else on there they were coming back along a lookout at the top of Johanna where the Great Ocean Walk is like on the campsite and you can look down on it all. And we counted five whale pods at once that were all out there. And the whale pods were surrounded by at least 50 dolphins on each pod. So you could imagine like 300 dolphins and however many whales. And then everybody surfing in between it and beautiful sunsets and stuff. It's pretty amazing. Amy: Do you think that was different because of COVID? Bill: I think it was different at that time mainly due to the weather patterns that were happening with the changes from La Nina and El Nino and stuff, which we hadn't seen in a while. So I think the whales were coming through at different times. A lot more of the nature [00:26:00] stuff that I noticed that was different because of COVID was the snakes. There were a lot of snakes out there. That was probably just not many people were using the track. Potentially not as much maintenance on there, but I stood over five tiger snakes in one day right between my legs. The worst one was, it was maybe 35 degree day and we'd been trekking from Melanesia Beach, which is like a huge hike to get up there. And then you walk all the way through to Johanna. And I was so exhausted and hot. So I took my gaiters off and everything and got off out my thick pants and boots and everything and got into just my underwear to go out for a swim and Zuzi my partner was like oh make sure you wear your gaiters and I said nah nah I'll be fine. About three steps down there, I was looking down at a brown snake, about 30 centimetres from my crotch, just staring up and I'm only in my underwear. I jumped as high as I [00:27:00] could and the snake kind of swivelled under me and then went off into the bushes. They're normally pretty relaxed, but you know, 20 centimetres away from your crotch and in your underwear. Yeah. Some other areas around here that are pretty special to me is the Sequoia Plantation at the California Redwoods on Binns Track. That whole area around there, from Binns up to Beach Forest, there's a real beautiful overgrown quarry down there where we went with school quite a lot of times where the quarry was evacuated with all of their power tools and equipment and everything still in there. And it looks quite surreal because as you walk in there, it's like... A 40 meter drop straight down and then the forest canopy sits like, say, 30, 40 meters down. So it looks so surreal of like the normal canopy. It's a bit hard to describe, but I hope people understand what I'm saying. If you just imagine [00:28:00] a giant hole in the ground, but then it's formed its own forest in there. So it's like the level of forest 40 meters different. So it's a pretty epic sort of place. Around that whole area as well, like as I mentioned earlier, I was super lucky to be able to travel out there with Bruce Pascoe, and have done some stuff with Richard Collopy as well, so having those indigenous knowledge keepers being able to take it out and sort of explain to me as well. And then when I did the Great Ocean Walk recently, I was listening to their podcasts and you know, audio books and stuff. And it brought me right back to, you know, being a 12 year old kid, being told firsthand of those sort of areas. It's pretty great. Amy: it's interesting because I've been talking to [00:29:00] people, obviously of an older generation who got no education about Indigenous Australia, basically, or that sort of yeah, very limited problematic stuff. Do you think that's changing now? Bill: 100%. Since I was, I would say about 12 when I was doing these sort of things I think it was me and, like, the whole class had the option of going and doing this, and it was me and two others that took it up, and nobody was interested in it at all. And I think in the 20 years since then, there's been a complete change of that, and I think that is a lot due to people like Bruce Pascoe and how passionate he's been in the media, and how well his books, like Dark Emu, have gone, you know, his Ted talks and the way that he was so persistent that people really need to sort of understand that as well as well as you know a few other white folks that were prominent that helped him out a bit with Ben Shewry from [00:30:00] Attica for example of you know helping Bruce showcase like those native foods properly and helping tell those stories really well I'm really happy now that I've seen that complete transition in not just general life, but sport and you know everything else as well. It's a lot more people are just really showing an interest to it, and you know, and showing the respect that the First Nations people really deserve. Amy: Yeah, and obviously doing events and festivals and things yeah, just from my experience of coming along to some of them, that's important in what you do. Bill: Oh, 100%. With both of our festivals, we try and open it with not just a Welcome to country and stuff. We like to do a full smoking ceremony and then some traditional indigenous performance as well as a lot of contemporary indigenous performance stuff as well. So we opened both festivals and then [00:31:00] closed both festivals with that as well. Winter Wild, for example, we have closed the past three festivals with a panel discussion called Walking on Country and just where people can come in in an open and safe environment and talk to those sort of people. Bruce has been down for one his son Jack Pascoe has been down for one. We've had Brett Clark and a few other You know, traditional owners around here to be able to just in a safe space, have those conversations and how should we feel and, you know, how can we help you, you know, and just show the respect that needs to, that they deserve, really. Amy: So another thing I'm asking people is your hopes for the future of the area too, of Apollo Bay. Bill: I've got to be careful which hat I'm wearing when I talk about this. I'm just rebuilding in Apollo Bay. So I'll be living here for potentially the rest of my life now. And with my work in the tourism [00:32:00] industry and fishing industry and stuff, I really like to see a slow and steady growth. I think it's important for us to continue to grow, but to do it right and stay true to the authenticity of what the town is. And I think the history and the people here are the right people to do that as well. I would be devastated to have something like what happened down the coast at Lorne and Torquay with big Mantra hotels and all of that sort of stuff come in. So, no major redevelopment, but I really want to see things continue the way they are on like a grassroots sort of steady way up. Amy: Sounds good. Alright, well yeah, I'm sure we could talk for hours and we can do more chats, but just to put you on the spot, which I'm doing for everyone as well, is just asking if you have any life advice. Bill: Life advice? I suppose just think that every minute counts, because you can't really [00:33:00] take that time back. Like, there's things in life like money and experiences and all of that, but you know, you've really got to think that the one thing that you can't get back is time. So, use it wisely/ And to that, I think like experiences to me are more important than money for, I'd rather live a life of, you know, a steady life and just enjoy my friends and my family and nature and everything that is around here. Amy: Yep, sounds good. Alright, well we'll wind it up. I wonder if you had a visitor coming what would be your perfect day to take them around the area? Bill: Depends what they, if they were qualified to spend time in the ocean and stuff and the conditions were fine. That would be it, you know, an early morning snorkel or something out there on a beautiful day. Lunch up at the co op, [00:34:00] take them down to Johanna for a surf or something, hit the redwoods and stuff up on the way back. Maybe go through Beech Forest to Laver's Hill, have dinner at the Perch. Back down here to our stomping ground, which is the RSL, so we probably go there for a couple of beers and then maybe finish up at the pub for the rest of the night, or the gin distillery or something, make the most of it all. Amy: What is the RSL? Bill: So the Retired Services League down here, so that's up the back of town and it's where a lot of the locals sort of pay the respect as well to fallen soldiers, but also it's a bit of a local hangout that we can get away from the general public down the street. And there's a really good community culture there of you know, pool competitions and darts and, you know, the old school, like, bar snacks and those sort of things. But they're also very traditional with their rules of, you know, you can't wear a hat [00:35:00] inside… Amy: Are women allowed? Bill: Yeah, yeah, women are allowed, and they are allowed to wear hats inside. It's only the men that aren't allowed to wear the hats. I'm going to go in there just with a massive hat. Amy: Yeah. Oh, thank you so much. Bill: My pleasure. Yeah, look forward to talking more. Oh, I've got plenty more to add. Thank you. Ciao.